Democrats grill William Barr on 'the rule of law'

Attorney General William Barr said defunding the police is “extremely dangerous” and stressed law enforcement agencies actually need more resources to address the concerns raised by protesters in Minneapolis. 

Barr said there are 18,000 law enforcement agencies, and most of them are “very, very small.” 

"We have to find a way of training — making sure the training is pushed out," Barr said.

Some background: "Defund the police!" has become a common chant of US activists protesting the death of George Floyd. The calls have multiplied as other instances of police violence against African Americans have come to light. The meaning of the term can depend on who you ask.

Some activist groups want entire police departments dismantled because of what they perceive as institutional racism, and the creation of an entirely different model of community-led public safety.

Others say it's about shifting funds from law enforcement to community-based alternatives.

With reporting from CNN's Emma Reynolds

Attorney General William Barr said that violent riots targeting federal buildings would spread across the country if law enforcement abandoned their defense of a courthouse in Portland that has been attacked nightly in the city.

“There’s no doubt in my mind that it would spread,” Barr said.

He continued: “We are concerned about this problem metastasizing around the country. And so we feel that we have to, in a place like Portland where we don’t have the support of the local government, we have to take a stand and defend this federal property. We can’t get to a level where were going to accept these kinds of violent attacks on federal courts.”

More on this: The administration is planning to keep federal agents in Portland through at least mid-October, according to an internal email obtained by CNN.

The email shows Customs and Border Protection offices being asked for teams of about 20 to 25 personnel. Specifically, the agency is looking for agents of a special unit that has received tactical training and can be called upon to deploy immediately when needed. The email also calls for agents from another Border Patrol unit that provides search and rescue response and intelligence personnel.

For several nights, the largely peaceful protests in the city have turned violent as a small subset of rioters have set fires and launched fireworks at the city's downtown federal courthouse. The issue has led local Portland city officials and members of the Trump administration to engage in a public war of words over who is to blame for the actions of rioters.

Attorney General William Barr said that he never discussed the Roger Stone case with Tim Shea before assigning Shea to take over the DC US attorney’s office, which was overseeing the prosecution. 

Barr also said he didn’t recall discussing the case with Jessie Liu, Shea’s predecessor. 

Barr said the first time he had substantive involvement in the Stone case was when Shea came to the Justice Department's headquarters to discuss the internal debate over the sentencing recommendation —hours before career prosecutors would make a court filing that Barr disagreed with.

Earlier in the hearing: Barr defended his involvement in the Roger Stone case saying he "determined that some intervention was necessary to rectify the rule of law, to make sure people are treated the same.”

Barr has been slammed by House Democrats for lessening the sentencing recommendation for Stone. Trump commuted Stone's prison sentence earlier this month.

The hearing grew tense Tuesday as Rep. Hank Johnson repeatedly refused to let Attorney General William Barr respond as the Democrat recounted the Roger Stone case. 

“I know your story but I’m asking my question,” Johnson said as Barr tried to get a word in.

“I’m telling my story — that’s what I’m here to do,” Barr fired back.

Later, Barr maintained that he had not discussed his decision to publicly disavow an initial sentencing recommendation made by career prosecutors in Stone's case with the White House. 

The two men continued to speak over each other, at times in raised voices, with Johnson accusing Barr of “carrying out Trump’s will.”

“Let me ask you,” Barr shouted back at one point. “Do you think it is fair for a 67-year-old man to be sent to prison for seven to nine years?”

Some background: In February, all four federal prosecutors who took the case against Stone to trial withdrew after top Justice Department officials undercut them and disavowed the government's recommended sentence against Stone.

See the exchange:

Matt McClain/Pool/Getty Images

Attorney General William Barr defended the deployment of federal forces in Portland, saying the Department of Justice has an obligation to protect federal property.

"Even where there are these kinds of riots occurring, we haven't had to put in the kind of reinforcement that we have in Portland because the state and local law enforcement does their job and won't allow rioters to come and just physically assault the courthouse. In Portland that's not the case," Barr said.

Some background: President Trump has said federal officers were sent to the city to protect federal property, but protesters and local leaders have strongly opposed their presence. Demonstrations, many of which have been peaceful, have been ongoing for more than 50 days.

Last Friday, a total of 18 people faced federal charges for their alleged roles during protests at the US Courthouse in Portland, according to the office of the US Attorney for the District of Oregon.

In a letter last week addressed to Barr and Acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security Chad Wolf, more than a dozen mayors called the administration's intention to deploy federal forces against protesters an "abuse of power."

In a hearing before the House Judiciary Committee, Texas Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee asked Attorney General William Barr if he knew about “the talk” between Black parents and their sons, referring to the discussion on how to behave in police confrontations.

“I think I do,” Barr said. 

“I don’t know if you do,” Jackson Lee responded. 

The congresswoman asked Barr if the Department of Justice is committed to ending systemic racism and racism in law enforcement across the US.

“I don’t agree there's systemic racism in the police department, generally in this country,” Barr said. 

Jackson Lee went on to question why the DOJ has not implemented pattern-or-practice investigations to address violence in law enforcement. “Why has your department only pursued one pattern-or-practice investigation since President Trump took office that could stop systemic racism?” she asked. 

“The response to this is, in fact, training of police, and I think the police believe that that's a response,” Barr said. 

Jackson Lee alleged that Barr was more focused on allies of Trump rather than addressing these cases. 

Watch more:

Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

Attorney General William Barr defended his involvement in the Roger Stone and Michael Flynn cases, saying he has aimed to "restore the rule of law" at the Department of Justice so "we have one rule for everybody."

"I agree the President's friends don't deserve special breaks, but they also don't deserve to be treated more harshly than other people, and sometimes that's a difficult decision to make especially when you know you are going to be castigated for it. But that is what the rule of law is and that's what fairness to the individual ultimately comes to. Being willing to do what's fair to the individual," Barr continued.

Barr said he believed Stone should go to jail and thought the judge's sentence was correct, but added that line prosecutors were trying to advocate for a sentence that was "more than twice than anyone else in a similar position had ever served."

"And I was not going to advocate that because that is not the rule of law," Barr said.

Barr has been slammed by House Democrats for lessening the sentencing recommendation for Stone, Trump's longtime friend, and moving to dismiss charges against Flynn, Trump's first national security adviser.

Trump commuted Stone's prison sentence earlier this month.

Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

Attorney General William Barr pushed back on characterizations that he has politicized the Justice Department to defend President Trump, asking rhetorically, “Could you point to one indictment that has been under the department that you feel is unmerited?”

Addressing his involvement in the prosecutions of Roger Stone and Michael Flynn, Barr said they were “both cases where I determined that some intervention was necessary to rectify the rule of law, to make sure people are treated the same.”

He raised his voice as he criticized line prosecutors who had attempted to seek a stiff prison sentence for Stone, reiterating that he felt Stone should go to jail, but not for an unfair amount of time. 

In his opening statement, Rep. Jim Jordan, the top Republican on the House Judiciary Committee, said Democrats were targeting Barr because he had been unafraid to characterize the Russia probe as "spying" on the President's campaign.